Dr. Swann: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With the government considering massive cuts, stakeholder groups have been speaking out for public education, only to receive a scolding by the Minister of Education. But teachers, school trustees, and parents are not to blame. They're not to blame for creating a climate of fear around education. The actions of the minister are creating a climate of fear. To the Premier. School boards and trustees are fighting for our children's education. This is commendable. Why is the government chastising them?

Mr. Hancock: Mr. Speaker, I don't believe the government is chastising anybody. The Minister of Education yesterday indicated that we have the most robust pre-budget consultation that has ever happened with school boards in this province leading up to a new budget. What I said to the school board trustees yesterday and what I said to the ATA before is that it would be preferable if they engaged in a more positive way to engage the public positively about education. I have never used numbers in the discussion in terms of budget cuts. That is a number that the ATA made up and is using for their advertising process. All I'm saying is that I don't need 10,000 of exactly the same e-mail to tell me that people care about education in this province. People do care about education in this province.

Dr. Swann: Well, Mr. Speaker, no good deed goes unpunished. Unlike this government, school boards know how to balance their budgets. How can the Premier defend raiding the school boards' savings and now threatening drastic cuts?

Mr. Stelmach: Mr. Speaker, school boards in the province of Alberta have accumulated roughly 400 and some million dollars' worth of surpluses in their budgets. The minister has met with them and asked, as we proceed with budgeting for the next year, that we may have to go to them and ask them to use some of their surpluses that they have accumulated over the years and keep any reductions in staffing or anything out of the classroom. I think it's a very reasonable ask, and most school boards that I talked to thought it was a reasonable approach.

Dr. Swann: Mr. Speaker, if the Alberta Teachers' Association's estimate of $340 million in cuts is, quote, greatly exaggerated, as your minister has claimed, then Mr. Premier, why not simply level with Albertans by saying how much you're planning to cut?

Mr. Hancock: Mr. Speaker, the budgeting process is an ongoing process. It hasn't come to a finite conclusion. It's totally imprudent, in my view – and I think the school boards share this; we've just spent all morning talking about how we go forward — to start from numbers and figure out what you want to do. What you really need to do is start with: what are the outcomes that you want to achieve? Then apply the resources you have to make sure you achieve them. That's what school boards are engaged with me in doing.

Ms Notley: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Albertans have witnessed first-hand the devastation when this government begins sharpening its knife. It's no wonder, then, that school trustees speak out when the government starts to talk about cutting their budget. But the Minister of Education wants them to shut their mouths and let him control what they say to the public, and he told them so yesterday. How dare the minister scold democratically elected school trustees for doing their job and defending the education system?

Mr. Hancock: Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that the hon. member go to www.davehancock.ca and read what I actually said before she forms a question that postulates what I didn't say. What I did say to school board trustees is that I had engaged them this year in the most extensive pre-budget consultation they've ever had, in a positive discussion about looking through the lens of: are we doing the right things, and are we doing them in the right way? When we're saying that we're doing the right things, are we achieving the outcomes we want to achieve? We ought to be able to look at everything we do to determine whether or not it's helping us to achieve our outcomes. They're all engaged in that process.

What I was concerned about was whether or not when they signed on to an ad campaign about stopping the cuts — and don't get me wrong, I love the engagement of Albertans in discussing education and its importance — But when they engage in that process, did they use public money that ought to be going to the classroom?

Ms Notley: Well, Mr. Speaker, I actually have a copy of what the minister said yesterday, so I did actually read it. This minister's if you can't say something nice, don't say something at all approach is not only profoundly condescending; it also serves to oppress any form of democratic debate.

Now, we've seen it all before. When Lyle Oberg was challenged, his response was to send in the auditors. This government thinks that school trustees work for them, not for the people who elected them. How can this minister be so arrogant as to think it's appropriate to lecture and intimidate elected officials who are working to ensure that our children receive a decent education?

Mr. Hancock: Mr. Speaker, I just met with the school board chairs and superintendents this morning, all morning, talking, again, in the process of discussion about what we need to do and how we can do it better and how we can do it collaboratively. Not one of them was intimidated by me; I can assure you of that. They all engaged in a very frank, open, and honest discussion. Not one backed away from the challenge to discuss education in a forward-thinking, robust, optimistic manner about what we can do to make sure that every child in this province has an opportunity to succeed to the best of their abilities. That's what we're engaged in. It's not patronizing. It's open, honest, frank discussion about what's important.

Ms Notley: Well, Mr. Speaker, despite what the minister says, Alberta school trustees obviously don't believe the government is listening to their concerns, and the only way they could get the government's attention was by launching the Stop the Cuts campaign. Frankly, if the minister got 10,000 e-mails, I hope to goodness that he's finally getting the message. Rather than listening to their message, why did the minister choose to scold and bully and to get them to toe the Conservative line?

Mr. Hancock: Mr. Speaker, over the course of this year we've engaged in Inspiring Education: A Dialogue with Albertans. It has been a process that has been going on for a full year of consultation with trustees, with parents, with teachers, and with the public. We had Setting the Direction for children with special needs, in which we engaged with trustees, with teachers, with school boards, with the public. We've had the School Act review. We're engaging with trustees, with the public, with school boards, with teachers. We now have, as I said before several times today, the most robust pre-budget discussion that we've ever had in this province on education about how we go forward with the resources we have to achieve the outcomes we need to achieve.

There can't be any more honest, open, frank, and responsive approach that I can think of. It's taken all of my time this year.